Randomizers?

  • PTuniverse
    26th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    Did I create a "true randomizer"?

    This may or may not be random, but these are prototypes, so don't expect them to be good.

     

    The reason I called it a "true" randomizer is because, as the output increases, usual TPT randomizers' next output chances become more Gaussian (with the conductor as the center) instead of truly random (in my opinion). The conductor (usually mercury) sometimes does not move well enough to be truly random, and this becomes more and more evident with larger randomizers.

     

    0 means nothing, 1 means conductor}

    {0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0}

    Chances of an output being conducted next

    {2 4 9 18 36 18 9 4}

    Chances of a TRUE randomizer's output being conducted next:

    {13 13 13 13 13 13 13 13} 

     

    I am using my knowledge of fluid mechanics in TPT, especially utilizing the "leaping wave" effect, in which liquid "holes" in the surface tend to move a lot faster than normal liquid can in a single frame. Instead of using conductors, I am using insulators, as the liquid hole acts as the "conductor".

     

    The leaping wave also expands the randomize selection; using the effect, a randomizer can cover all outputs; but the problem is that mercury randomizers move at 1 frame per second; therefore the selection range is only within 8 pixels (at fastest; selection range may vary, meaning that faster randomizers are actually worse in this case)

     

    Assuming that each output is spaced out at 2 pixels, in the worse scenario, this is the effect of a limited selection range:

     

    {0 0 0 0 0 0 1}

    {0 0 3 6 13 26 52}

     

    Outputs outside the selection range are automatically 0, because the mercury conductor does not have enough time to be able to reach the proper position in order to successfully conduct the output.

    Edited 5 times by PTuniverse. Last: 26th Feb 2014
  • CeeJayBee
    26th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    Still technically pseudorandom as it is generated with code. Nearly nothing is TRULY random.

  • boxmein
    26th Feb 2014 Former Staff 0 Permalink
    @CeeJayBee (View Post)
    Nature is. That's why pseudorandom generators oftentimes collect entropy from nature.
  • CeeJayBee
    26th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    @boxmein (View Post)

     NEARLY nothing :P

     

    But anyway, is nature TRULY random? Wouldn't there be external biological factors affecting how the plants reproduce? 

  • boxmein
    26th Feb 2014 Former Staff 0 Permalink
    @CeeJayBee (View Post)
    Well yes but as far as entropy-collectors such as mouse/keyboard/microphone/webcam are concerned the data from there is pretty unique. random.org also uses atmospheric noise which I have no idea how they collect in their 'truly'-random number service.
  • MiningMarsh
    26th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    @CeeJayBee (View Post)

    As far as has been determined, the behavior of virtual particles are truly random, or indistinguishable from truly random, and as such, our universe operates ever so slightly randomly.

     

    On a related note, linear feedback shift registers are hardware based, and for a long time were considered crytpgraphically safe. One woud not be too hard to whip up in TPT.

  • PTuniverse
    28th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    @boxmein (View Post)

     I clap, for you have given way to a randomizer save on FP.

     

    EDIT: Added 6-output and 7-output version! Noted that 8-output version might be impossible without revised architecture.

    Edited 2 times by PTuniverse. Last: 28th Feb 2014
  • Sandwichlizard
    28th Feb 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    I did not expect this to get soo much attention.  I am happy to help further the research.

  • Sandwichlizard
    2nd Mar 2014 Member 0 Permalink

    HERE IS THE NEW LAB.

     

    I think you may have created the best randomizers possible in TPT

    Edited once by Sandwichlizard. Last: 2nd Mar 2014